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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 08/10/2021 at 01:29 #141794
Hawk777
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When a new train appears at the fringe of a sim, I get a sound and a message in the message window. Personally I find this quite useful; however, when playing multiplayer, I find it a little annoying that I don’t get the same thing when a train approaches the panel boundary between my colleague’s panels and my own. Thus, I was wondering two things.

First, what happens in real life? Do real signallers get alerts when trains enter their areas of responsibility, as we do in SimSig? If so, do they get alerts for all trains entering their workstation, or only trains entering from different signalling centres (as we do in SimSig)?

Second, possibly guided by the answer to the preceding question, what do people think about an option to get entry messages for trains arriving from a workstation controlled by someone else in a multiplayer session?

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 08/10/2021 at 04:43 #141795
flabberdacks
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In a PSB, in my experience, if a klaxon is provided at all, it's only for entering the box control area.

There is absolutely no notification of a train entering your panel - the expectation is that real life signallers maintain 'situational awareness'.

There's a trick to running a panel during quiet time - even if you're reading or having a chat to your mate next to you (or in the case of multiplayer games, watching youtube) - always cast a quick glance over your area to make sure everything is as it should be. Scanning the panel for a second once every couple of minutes should keep you out of trouble.

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 08/10/2021 at 10:04 #141799
lazzer
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lazzer in post 141798 said:
[quote=flabberdacks;post=141795]There is absolutely no notification of a train entering your panel - the expectation is that real life signallers maintain 'situational awareness'.
As a driver, I can assure you that relying on a signaller to "maintain situational awareness" is a pointless exercise. The number of times I've been forgotten about at a controlled signal where the signaller has forgotten to set the road is fairly high.

You can always tell, because as soon as you press the SG button on the GSM-R, the signal suddenly goes straight from red to green! Sometimes they try to cover it up by sending the "Wait" response, to make you think there's an actual reason for it, but we all know they just forgot

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 10/10/2021 at 01:49 #141815
flabberdacks
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lazzer in post 141798 said:


You can always tell, because as soon as you press the SG button on the GSM-R, the signal suddenly goes straight from red to green!
Ah, the old driver operated signal!

It's funny, because that's exactly what it would look like to a driver. Sometimes you've been overlooked for sure, no doubt. Sometimes we're busy with a priority task like setting up work on track, sometimes the move you can't see clears your line just as you hit the button. All fun and games

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 10/10/2021 at 11:00 #141816
Stephen Fulcher
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Probably no different to the number of drivers who pick the phone up even though it’s obvious why they are detained at a given signal.
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 10/10/2021 at 13:22 #141817
jc92
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flabberdacks in post 141815 said:
lazzer in post 141798 said:


You can always tell, because as soon as you press the SG button on the GSM-R, the signal suddenly goes straight from red to green!
Ah, the old driver operated signal!

It's funny, because that's exactly what it would look like to a driver. Sometimes you've been overlooked for sure, no doubt. Sometimes we're busy with a priority task like setting up work on track, sometimes the move you can't see clears your line just as you hit the button. All fun and games :)
Had exactly this yesterday. Driver detained 2 minutes while I was on the phone about an operational issue, turned round, pulled off as he opened the SPT case without even knowing he was there. On this occasion however he still rang anyway as he wanted to know why I'd inconvenienced him, thus detaining him longer. Go figure

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 02:14 #141825
Hawk777
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Well, sounds like the current system is prototypical, so no complaints from me there then. And thanks, as always, for the amusing anecdotes from real life!
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 08:51 #141826
Late Turn
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lazzer in post 141799 said:
As a driver, I can assure you that relying on a signaller to "maintain situational awareness" is a pointless exercise. The number of times I've been forgotten about at a controlled signal where the signaller has forgotten to set the road is fairly high.

You can always tell, because as soon as you press the SG button on the GSM-R, the signal suddenly goes straight from red to green! Sometimes they try to cover it up by sending the "Wait" response, to make you think there's an actual reason for it, but we all know they just forgot :)

I've been there, on both sides. You never know whether it's a line blockage that was a bit late being given back. The proof is usually in the sheepish-looking COSS somewhere in the section. On the other hand, it's easy to overlook a train, either because you're busy dealing with two or three other things, or because you're at the other end of the box cooking your dinner, or because you thought that you'd finally found a moment to traipse downstairs to the ever-luxurious outhouse - that's the reality of twelve hours in a single-manned location, and to some extent a busy powerbox too.

Personally I see the "SG", sent promptly unless there's an obvious reason for being held, as a gentle reminder, to hopefully avoid a reportable delay and save my signalling colleague from the joy of the delay attribution system. If the signal comes off to green straight away, I have a little smile to myself and imagine that the signalman's uttered a quiet word of apology whilst pulling off. No harm done, to me at least!

To then, several seconds later, receive "wait" is equivalent in my mind to a giant hand emerging from the signal box roof, slowly rotating to face me, and proudly displaying two fingers in my direction.

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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 14:22 #141827
headshot119
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Late Turn in post 141826 said:

To then, several seconds later, receive "wait" is equivalent in my mind to a giant hand emerging from the signal box roof, slowly rotating to face me, and proudly displaying two fingers in my direction.
Are you saying that you've pressed "SG" at a red, the signal clears, then a few seconds later you get "Wait" back from the signaller?

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 15:56 #141828
Guts
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I can go one better, when you pull off for a train and it doesn't move, 2mins go by, no call, I call the driver up and suddenly the train moves off, no call about the delay and IF the driver answers, some made up excuse about applying power or brakes or what not.
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 16:06 #141829
Splodge
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headshot119 in post 141827 said:
Late Turn in post 141826 said:

To then, several seconds later, receive "wait" is equivalent in my mind to a giant hand emerging from the signal box roof, slowly rotating to face me, and proudly displaying two fingers in my direction.
Are you saying that you've pressed "SG" at a red, the signal clears, then a few seconds later you get "Wait" back from the signaller?
I've had that, more than a few seconds later too. I presume it's the same as in SimSig when I just automatically reply to all the phone calls with 'wait 15 minutes'!

There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 16:17 #141831
headshot119
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Splodge in post 141829 said:
headshot119 in post 141827 said:
Late Turn in post 141826 said:

To then, several seconds later, receive "wait" is equivalent in my mind to a giant hand emerging from the signal box roof, slowly rotating to face me, and proudly displaying two fingers in my direction.
Are you saying that you've pressed "SG" at a red, the signal clears, then a few seconds later you get "Wait" back from the signaller?
I've had that, more than a few seconds later too. I presume it's the same as in SimSig when I just automatically reply to all the phone calls with 'wait 15 minutes'!
I can appreciate it's annoying as a driver, but without trying to sound like I'm making excuses! There's a few styles of GSMR fixed terminal now I don't know if this applies to all of them, but on at least two styles the button to clear down the "SG" message (Which will blip every few seconds till it's cleared down) is tiny in comparison to the wait button, so it's easier to hit wait.

We're all different but I'd rather get too many "SG" messages than not enough We could also do with a "Sorry" button for responding.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Train entry messages: realism and cross-panel fringes 11/10/2021 at 22:02 #141838
Late Turn
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headshot119 in post 141827 said:
Are you saying that you've pressed "SG" at a red, the signal clears, then a few seconds later you get "Wait" back from the signaller?

Yup, quite often - sometimes a minute or two, or even more, after the signal clears! Thanks for the subsequent explanation though. It's been a few years now since I've had anything to do with a fixed terminal in a box but I do seem to remember it being a bit more of a faff to delete it rather than acknowledging it with "wait".

I try to be sensible with SG'ing - I appreciate that it must be a bit of a nightmare on a busy panel when it's all kicking off, and in turn it perhaps devalues its use as a reminder somewhat.

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The following user said thank you: flabberdacks