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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Manchester North > Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 30/05/2021 at 20:15 #139795
grahamj42
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128 posts
Track circuit TDJC has failed. 5J70 called in and I told the driver to pass the signal at danger and examine the line.
More than 15 minutes later he hasn't moved.
When I told him again, the F2 window showed a speed of 0 mph for a second before returning to "Stopped at signal 902".
Saved game attached.

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 30/05/2021 at 21:27 #139801
y10g9
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702 posts
I can see the issue and will give a brief explanation of what has happened.
When 5J70 phoned in at the Red signal initially, He isn't phoning from 902 but a signal called Newton Heath Loco Sidings. From what I can tell from the sim, this is a hidden signal in the debug area prior to 902 as a train head on protection. The purpose of this signal is to allow a train to still drop off the sim if a train has entered at the loco sidings. This hidden signal clears automatically when 902 has a procced aspect displayed and so normally causes no issues.


The Hidden signal is the shunt signal to the right of the 0902 text.


This is the initial phonecall I received from 5J70


The issue (which I've reported to Mantis 33793) is that when 5J70 is told to pass the signal, he does not actually pass the hidden signal before he stops at 902. This puts the train into a confused state where he still has the pass signal at danger command active for Signal Newton Heath Loco Sidings but he is stopped at 902 signal. To work around this, if you ask 5J70 to shunt forwards (F2 window, right click on 5J70, Signaling Options, Shunt Forward) he will shunt forwards enough to clear the Pass Sig Command (the Pass Sig column in F2 will remove the Y when the command is no longer active). You will then be able to tell him to pass 902 at stop (or Pass at stop and examine) where he will continue on his way and head for Thorpes Bridge Junction


Circled is the Pass signal command. After telling 5J70 to shunt forwards, this Y will disappear, and you'll be able to ask him to pass 902

Thanks for the Save Game (SSG) attached to your initial post. It was very helpful in being able to identify the issue quickly. In future, it would also be appreciated to know the know the sim and loader versions as well. This means that we can test for the issue on the same version you are using. As a tester, I currently have multiple versions of Man North on my computer (in multiple locations) as we are testing a new version of the sim with other fixes in it. Knowing the version you have found the issue on helps speed up that process for us as it could have been fixed in a test version of the sim already.
To aid with this, the Loader has a feature on the Help, About window. If you click on the Technical info tab, this provides version numbers as well as relevant startup options. Just click Copy and Paste the data into the forum post along with you report.
An example of the info provided is below
Quote:
OS: Windows 10 Home 64bit
Loader: SimSig Loader version 5.15; Sim: Simulation Manchester North; data version 1.6
License: Locked license in use
TT: Manchester North 08042015 0000 Start v1.1.0
TT filename: Manchester North 08042015 0000 Start.WTT
TT merged: False
Sim upgrade: False
Loader upgrade: False
Save reloaded: True
NERA2009 active at start
NPROBLEMS active at start
NLOW active at start

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Last edited: 30/05/2021 at 21:52 by y10g9
Reason: Adding Mantis Number

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The following user said thank you: grahamj42
Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 09:26 #139805
grahamj42
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128 posts
Thank you very much for your clear explanation. I didn't think to check the signal number.

I'm sorry I forgot to give the version information. Noted for the next time.

I must also apologise for putting this in the timetable rather than the sim folder where it really belongs.

Last edited: 31/05/2021 at 09:28 by grahamj42
Reason: None given

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 11:37 #139808
y10g9
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702 posts
No worries. I’m sure a mod will get the class 08 shunter fired up at some point.
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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 12:02 #139809
bill_gensheet
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754 posts
y10g9 in post 139801 said:

To aid with this, the Loader has a feature on the Help, About window. If you click on the Technical info tab, this provides version numbers as well as relevant startup options. Just click Copy and Paste the data into the forum post along with you report.
Would it be possible for this data to be wrapped up in the .ssg file in future ?

Bill

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 12:18 #139811
Dionysusnu
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292 posts
bill_gensheet in post 139809 said:
y10g9 in post 139801 said:

To aid with this, the Loader has a feature on the Help, About window. If you click on the Technical info tab, this provides version numbers as well as relevant startup options. Just click Copy and Paste the data into the forum post along with you report.
Would it be possible for this data to be wrapped up in the .ssg file in future ?

Bill

Most of it already is. The loader, sim and compiler version are in the first line of XML file. The startup options can be found with a quick CTRL + F.
Quote:

<SimSigSimulation ID="manchesternorth" CompilerVersion="4.99.141" LoaderVersion="5.15" SimVersion="1.6.0">


<TNSC ID="NERA1998"/>
<TNSC ID="NERA2009">
<Marked>-1</Marked>
</TNSC>
<TNSC ID="NSIMERA"/>
<TNSC ID="NPROBLEMS">
<Marked>-1</Marked>
</TNSC>
<TNSC ID="NNONE"/>
<TNSC ID="NLOW">
<Marked>-1</Marked>
</TNSC>
<TNSC ID="NMEDIUM"/>
<TNSC ID="NHIGH"/>

Last edited: 31/05/2021 at 12:41 by Dionysusnu
Reason: Add example data

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 20:21 #139822
bugsy
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1131 posts
How many lines of the text is required? Would the first six suffice?
Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 31/05/2021 at 23:45 #139823
headshot119
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4107 posts
bugsy in post 139822 said:
How many lines of the text is required? Would the first six suffice?
Hi Bugsy, if you're referring to the "Technical info" found under Hamburger > Help > About > Technical Info. Then we need all of that information to get a complete picture, you can get it quickly by pressing the Copy button and then pasting it onto the forum.

If you're referring to the post by Dionysusnu then we don't need to people to unpack save game and attempt to find what we need, the built in loader feature gives everything we need quickly and easily, and factors in any changes executed on reloading save games etc.

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 01/06/2021 at 07:54 #139826
bugsy
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1131 posts
headshot119 in post 139823 said:
bugsy in post 139822 said:
How many lines of the text is required? Would the first six suffice?
Hi Bugsy, if you're referring to the "Technical info" found under Hamburger > Help > About > Technical Info. Then we need all of that information to get a complete picture, you can get it quickly by pressing the Copy button and then pasting it onto the forum.

If you're referring to the post by Dionysusnu then we don't need to people to unpack save game and attempt to find what we need, the built in loader feature gives everything we need quickly and easily, and factors in any changes executed on reloading save games etc.
Hi Headshot119. Yes ,it's the "Technical Info" that I'm referring to. Thanks for making that clear.

I've just got to re-run a Peterborough 1977 saved game to see if I can sort out what's going on. Failing that, I may well have to ask for some help and of course, I'll provide the "Technical Info" along with my question.

Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate.
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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 01/06/2021 at 11:54 #139830
Dionysusnu
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292 posts
headshot119 in post 139823 said:
If you're referring to the post by Dionysusnu then we don't need to people to unpack save game and attempt to find what we need, the built in loader feature gives everything we need quickly and easily, and factors in any changes executed on reloading save games etc.
My post was directed to the tester, not to the reporting user. There's no need to ask for the loader and sim version, both are included in the SSG file.

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Train refuses to pass signal at danger exiting Newton Heath Depot 01/06/2021 at 11:58 #139831
headshot119
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4107 posts
Dionysusnu in post 139830 said:
headshot119 in post 139823 said:
If you're referring to the post by Dionysusnu then we don't need to people to unpack save game and attempt to find what we need, the built in loader feature gives everything we need quickly and easily, and factors in any changes executed on reloading save games etc.
My post was directed to the tester, not to the reporting user. There's no need to ask for the loader and sim version, both are included in the SSG file.
We need to ask for the loader and simulation version from the Help menu, this allows us to see the actual version the person was running the save game from, and not for example having opened a save game for V1 of the simulation, from loader V4, on simulation V2, and Loader V5.

We wouldn't ask, if we didn't need to know

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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